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 Thoughts on our Tojil runs

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Hawina
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Age : 27
Location : Sweden

PostSubject: Thoughts on our Tojil runs   Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:01 pm

Hey everyone ^^

I thought I would share some of my thoughts on our Tojil runs Smile

First off, I would really like to thank everyone who has been with us from the start.
Loss after loss, you guys still never fail to show up. I am very happy we are able to count
on you so!

I have seen everyone improve a lot ever since we started to do this. Both in gear and playstyle.
I think we have all come very far together, yet every time we reach our frienly dynosaur friend,
we get slaughtered. So it shows we have some stuff to improve on yet.~

After our fails, we tend to analize what went wrong and we have discovered a few things that
really need to improve for this to work.

As you all know, stunning is of great importance on Tojil. One missed stun usually means we will
not win. We have had a bit of bad communication when it came to stunning. Some runs it went perfect
whilst others, we were not aware that we were supposed to solo stun for a while and thus already
missed stuns in the start, one of the most critical phases.
Many in the linkshell think we need a second geo because of our stun resists. But now that we have
actually tried with geo meva down, I noticed no difference. Once stun resists, it resists.
Geo might let one or two more stuns in, but in my opinion, this is not worth taking a second geo for.
Rdm can give us a lot more beneficial enfeebs.

Which brings me to something else that needs to be improved. Enfeebles are not sticking good enough.
If rdm can land silence, that means we need to stun less, and so resists will not come as fast.
Of course other enfeebs sticking will make the fight more of a breeze too.

Damage also needs to improve. We often deal damage too slow, causing stun resists to show up. In a
good run, stun resists should never happen. It should be dead before that time.
Slow damage comes from a few factors. Some def down spells/abilities are not on, or DDs are not playing
aggresively enough. Don't be afraid to play aggressively! Trust in your mages. Very Happy
Something else that adds to slow damage is that spells such as slowga often get through. I have seen
it take too long for an erase+haste to go off. Backline jobs need to be more attentive to these things.

I have also noticed that ballad is often a problem. I often see whm shout for ballad many times and it
takes a while before they get it. Don't forget your mages after rotation bards! Smile
Last run we had one 3 song brd with us, which I think made rotating a lot easier. We only had to rotate
2 which was absolutely no problem. This also made room for cor rotation, which gives us some more
damage as well. The cor rotation did not go too well, but once we have more linkshell cors, we can
improve this.

One of the biggest problems that causes many of the things I mentioned before, is pickup members. It
takes me a long time to find members, a long time to instruct them every single run over and over again.
I instuct them clearly, but it is not often they do a good job.
Sadly we are quite low on back line jobs. The ones we shout for often don't do very well performing the
task of keeping haste up and erasing bad effect when needed. If we were to have linkshell members only,
they would understand the importance of keeping buffs up quite quickly. A DD without haste is very very
bad. So is a DD that needs to say they need stona 5 times.
I hope to resolve this issue quickly and find more reliable members to join our folds. Smile


That is all for my thoughts. I really think we are very close to beating it. We won't give up! Revenge
is close!

What do you guys think? Any ideas you would like to share? I would love to hear. Smile

~Haw
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on our Tojil runs   Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:17 pm

First of all, I and Havina occasionally miss some stuns and it might have costed us a run or two, admittedly. I am sorry about that. Our responsibility is already heavier than anyone else considering the importance of stun and I am thankful for the understanding as I haven't got any complaint about our failures (at least not in my face lol). It is really important to have this attitude of "shit happens, move on" if we want to avoid drama and elitism as much as we can.

Like Hawina had said, we have been improving and it showed but lately, I got the feeling that we started to lose our focus, not only on Tojil but lesser NMs too. Yesterday, it took us so long to kill Tute and Kurma and beat down Tojil on our first try (second was lost at start anyway). Of course, it is not only on the DDs but the support too. Maybe you can take a second look at your macros, make them more efficient to throw -nas and erases faster. It is too early to slack off (you should never slack off but you got the point). Once we get this win, there are still Muyingwa and Dakuwaqa and they will be even harder.

Despite all that, it is nice to see that we are not discouraged at all after all the losses. We just need to push it a little further Smile

Lastly, I would like to have a busier event schedule though. 2 runs a week is too few to get a hang of this but I understand people have jobs, families to take care of etc. The game is old and we are much older than when we started to play and this is a pretty laid back LS compared to most other delve farming LSs. It is not as easy here to get enough people to even fill an alliance despite going only twice a week and EU community is already pretty small relatively. But I think we can still try to go on more than two days. Even if we have to shout for more people and be forced to go without optimal party setups, it will still be good practice for those who can attend more and let's not forget about plasm!

There is no more delve farm shouts anymore, at least not in our time zone and I am sure I am not the only one who needs so much more plasm. Once we get the kill, we will need even more to get oatixur, sash, w/e. Two runs a week sadly don't cut it. And I am afraid that people will start to lose interest with so few runs if we keep losing considering the other bosses will be even harder too.

TL,DR; 1) We seem to be good enough to kill Tojil at least but we started to lack focus and that is not a good sign for a group that hasn't got the win yet and is already having a hard time filling up an alliance.
2) We need a busier event schedule, imo, for practice, plasm and to keep people interested.

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on our Tojil runs   Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:48 pm

Hello everyone!

So, first of all, I know absent people should not talk because they were not there etc...(really sorry for the run I missed and for the ones i will miss in the incoming week!) but I have something to say in general.

First of all, I don't think anyone could blame Scholars for a missed stun. It happens. And if a single stun missed could cost the run...well, we are doing something wrong. We cannot rely on a strategy that implies 100% non-missed stuns. I mean, even in the past I never blamed a Red Mage doing Chainspell Stun on much shorter fights, so...

So, here it comes with other problems. If we need a good Red Mage and, in general, more reliable support...well, we need to find it in some way. I know, easier than said, but if it is so important, we should stress it more. But, from what I recall, the Red Mage we had last Tuesday (cannot say about Friday, since I was not there) did very good. I am not sure about how much and how long Silence was on, but I think our base is quite good.

About bards...well, this is different. Again, I should not talk since my bard is not great, but I think a bard should do a decent job (gear admitting) not only with songs (to mages also!) but in general with Hastes, Erases, random cures, etc...and sometimes it is not the case, ending up with people without Haste or similarities. Of course, having to pick up some bards every time does not help.

But one thing I should say: Miru told me we had a Bard with the Empyrean Harp...and we did only a double rotation?!? Now, I don't know if we had also a third bard, but if we had...I say that in my opinion rotating only two is a mistake. First, you get 5 songs instead of 6, and, more importantly, you give up on something very good! We could get 7 songs on...last one could be last Minuet, or, even better and really day-saving, a Sentinel Scherzo, or a Defense song...I'm sure you got the point: having a bard with Empyrean Harp is a valuable resource and I think last time it was a bit wasted.

About Corsairs, rotating them is easy if done with only two and because Corsair rolls last for very long time. It can be done as first thing.

I can tell you my Arch Dynamis Lord Linkshell used also to rotate Corsairs and Bards and...I can tell you the Leader was not even close to our level in terms of capability to explain what to do. but bards were good, at least at listening. But this, we said already: reliable people in support roles are important, we all agree.

Two more points if I can: about Paladin, I think he should pull the Mega Boss and then getting rid of the minor things he gets, but...I think he should actually "get rid", not holding! I know sometimes is not easy but a Paladin contribution could be vital to hold the big one in case of wipe and reraise. I would try and die safely, reraise then run to the group, recover while people fight and, in case, intervene. But this is just my idea.

Lastly, about event frequency. I agree we should try more as a group but...not only the same event. I would add more things that could be a little bit older than the things we do, but very interesting for some reasons: we could win more easily, which is always good for the spirit, and we could improve some of our gears that is not covered by most recent content.
I refer in particular to Legion, to VWNMs and to Einherjar (last one, mostly for Paladins).
I think we should set up these events. It will have a good impact on the group.

Any comment on this is welcome.
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Hawina
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on our Tojil runs   Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:33 pm

We never blame the schs for a missed stun. If we fail, it is often more wrong than just stunning.
Stuns are sadly really important though, so we do have to count on them a lot. A missed Batholithic
shell doesn't really mean the death of us though. The biggest problem is a missed Lahar. Not really
because of the casualties, because those can be prevented, but because of the weakness it gives.
We just can't deal enough damage in the time we have with Lahar going off.
Stunning Tojil is very easy though. It is very slow with readying :DWe had both just been a bit messy.
Went much better on Tuesday already.

We have not done a single good rotation before Tojil. As we yet again had pickup bards,
and bards new to the shell, I chose to have a sure 5 songs instead of taking the chance and
and ending up with a failed rotation. A failed rotation would mean 0 SV songs because of having
to recast double march. We try to pick the best course of action depending on our situation.
Of course I expect more out of linkshell bards than pickup bards too.

And yea, pld should die, or kill the adds, so that they are ready in case of wipe and to help apply
steps. We have implemented this Smile

I have indeed also been looking into more events. I realized it was probably a good course of action to
keep everyone motivated. You will probably like this too, because I have mainly been looking into Legion!
I think it sounds like a lot of fun and will probably have a run set up for next week. Many others also
sounded excited about it. ^^
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Hawina
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on our Tojil runs   Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:48 pm

Oh and also. Last run we had a very good geo. She actually made a huge impact on our macc. She used meva
down on Tojil and macc up on us sch. Perhaps the geo from last time didn't use the spells, even though
she said she did? Cause that time I only sticked about 2 more stuns before it stopped stick. This time
we sticked stun for another 2min+. That was a huge increase.

So there is a few courses of action we can take. This geo gave us about 80 more macc. Dev and I could screw
our casting time staves and just fulltime Atinian, which is more than 180 macc. And upgrade our other gear
with macc augments. That way we probably don't need a second geo at all.
Or we could go the safe way and take two geo. But a geo or sch would have to take care of enfeebles and we
would lose 5% def down on Tojil. Rdm would be a great addition, but they really do need to be very well
geared to be able to perform.
If we take two geo and one uses the macc spells, I would think it is absolutely np for a sch or geo to stick
enfeebles with a good set. They would have a huge amount of macc.

So just some thoughts I was thinking about. I will think about how we do in the future. Of course it also
depends on which members come to the runs. Smile

We also have at least 3 brds in the shell now. So it is time to start really practice that rotation with them.
I am sure that with some practice, we can get it down. A successful rotation is a huge boost in damage.
Last time we made it to 10%! Imagine if we actually had that 200+ attack from the bard rotation. That is very,
very much. It might have even meant a win.

If everyone performs their role as needed, or as Slaanesh likes to say, "when the planets align" I am sure
we will have a swift victory. Very Happy
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